Why Gifted Healers Stay Small (And How to Stop) | Lawrence Ellyard

My guest this week had a single experience in his late teens that changed the entire direction of his life. He didn't plan for it. He didn't even know what it was called until it was already happening to him. Thirty years and 35 countries later, he's one of the most trusted names in complementary therapy.

Lawrence Ellyard, founder of the International Institute for Complementary Therapists, joins me to talk about what actually separates practitioners who quietly practice from the ones who become trusted leaders in this industry. It's not confidence. He'll tell you exactly what comes first, and why most people have it backwards.

We get into a strange little trick he calls the swallow test, a way of using your own body to know if something's true for you before your mind talks you out of it. He also opens up about the lessons he took home from time spent with Sir Richard Branson, and the one quality every high impact practitioner he's ever met has in common.

If you've ever felt the pull to do bigger work in the world but keep waiting to feel ready, this one's for you. Press play, then don't be surprised if you start it again from the top.

Connect with Lawrence at https://www.lawrenceellyard.com/ or https://www.instagram.com/lawrence_ellyard/

Transcript

Why healers hold back

Lisa Brandis 0:00

Lisa: There has never been a better time to be in the wellness industry. People are searching for deeper healing. They're looking for connection. They're more open to intuition, energy work, and complementary therapies more than ever before. And yet I've never seen so many gifted practitioners questioning themselves. They wonder if they're good enough. They wait until they feel more confident. They keep putting off the very work that they know instinctively they're here to do. So what's really holding them back? Today's conversation explores exactly that. My guest is Lawrence Ellyard, founder of the International Institute for Complementary Therapists, and someone who has spent more than three decades helping to shape the future of our profession. Through his work with practitioners across more than 35 countries, he has a front row seat to what separates those who simply practice from those who become trusted leaders. Together, we explore why confidence always follows courage, how to build credibility without losing authenticity, what trusting your intuition actually looks like in business and life, and why the practitioners who create the greatest impact all have one thing in common: they're driven by contribution, not recognition. Lawrence also shares the remarkable story of how one unexpected Reiki treatment changed the direction of his life, the lessons he took away from spending time with Sir Richard Branson, and why the future of our industry belongs to those who are willing to stay curious, keep learning, and keep showing up. If you've ever felt the call to make a bigger impact but wondered whether you're truly ready, this conversation will remind you that the world doesn't need a perfect practitioner, it needs an authentic one. So let's dive in. Lawrence, welcome to Connecting to Spirit podcast. Such a pleasure to have you here. I've been really looking forward to having a chat with you and finding out more about the big vision that you've got for the wellness industry. I know you're on a huge journey, and I thought for my podcast listeners it might be great to just start at the beginning. So tell us a little bit about what got you started in this industry in the first place, and where you began.

Lisa 2:09

Lawrence, welcome to Connecting to Spirit podcast. Such a pleasure to have you here. I've been, yeah, really looking forward to having a chat with you and finding out more about the big vision that you've got for, yeah, for the wellness industry. I know you're on a huge, on a huge, journey and, I thought for my podcast listeners it might be great to just start at the beginning. So tell us a little bit about what got you started in this industry in the first place and where you began.

The Reiki treatment that changed his life

Lawrence Ellyard 2:36

Yeah. Well, I, I think the, one of the first modalities I actually experienced, outside of meditation, which I started many years before, but I was, sort of in my late teens and I was at a personal development workshop, there was this, gentleman laying his hands on somebody in the break of this workshop. And I was like, that? You know. Anyway, so I, I... We were doing all this intensive, um, mental type work, you know, uh, process work and so forth. So I had a bit of a headache, you know, probably a reaction to doing this inner work. And, uh, we had the break and, I said, "Oh, what's it do?" And he goes, "Oh, I'm doing Reiki." And I said, "Oh, what's that?" And he goes, "Oh, I'm just, like, transmitting energy, and it's good for healing and restoring you and whatnot." So I was like, I've got a headache, you know, let's give it

Lisa 3:20

See

Lawrence Ellyard 3:21

go." So

Lisa 3:21

how good it is

Lawrence Ellyard 3:22

I laid down. Um, he put his hands, you know, just resting on, on my head either side, and his hands got really, really hot. And, uh, anyway, a few minutes passed, I got up and I was like, "How..." He said, "How's your head?" And I was like, "It's completely better." so that was my first experience of Reiki. And so I thought to myself, "Well, this guy must be some master teacher, you know, he's been doing it for decades." I asked him, you know, "When, when did you learn this? How long ago, how many years ago?" And he goes, "I did a workshop last weekend."

Lisa 3:52

I admit it was

Lawrence Ellyard 3:52

literally his, you know, he- like total beginner.

Lisa 3:55

Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 3:56

But had such a powerful effect. I was like, "Okay, there's something in this." So I met with, I, I asked, you know, "Who did you learn from?" And so it's one of the first, Reiki teachers in Australia who I got to do my first training with,

Lisa 4:07

Mm-hmm.

Lawrence Ellyard 4:08

which was fortunate. And they actually had a course, I think, two weeks later after this event. So I went straight into it a- and, never looked back really. Like, that was the first of many different trainings and educations in the wellness space and in psychology and counseling and energy work and Qi Gong and, you know, you name it. And I've

Martial arts, monks and unlearning everything

Lisa 4:28

black belts I hear?

Lawrence Ellyard 4:29

Yeah, yeah. There's a strong background in martial arts, which I still do to this day.

Lisa 4:33

Yeah, mate. Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 4:34

so a lot of that I, I think informs, everything else, you know, because y- you do a practice long enough, you know, and I'm, I don't know, over three decades in that. So, you know, you start to unlearn actually. You know, you

Lisa 4:46

Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 4:47

but you unlearn things that are not so useful for you in your life and how to, you know, better navigate situations. So yeah, that, that's probably the, the first start of that, you know. So I think I was about 18 or 19, something like that.

Lisa 5:00

Mm.

Lawrence Ellyard 5:00

um, yeah, then I was pursuing a career 'cause my parents at the time, uh, they were like, "You know, you need to get a real job a- and not be, you know, a hippie." Uh, but anyway, so I was pursuing a career in art direction and graphic design. and then I had this moment where I was like, "No, this isn't for me." And so I, you know, I checked into a Buddhist monastery as you do, and I lived there for about three years and did a lot of intensive, um, med- meditation practice and a whole, whole range of different things. So just really explored many areas, over the years.

Lisa 5:37

Mm.

Lawrence Ellyard 5:38

yeah, you know, leads me to today I guess. All that informs, you know, has, has shaped who I've, who I'm becoming. I don't really see that there's ever a destination. The more you, you do, the more you realize there's more to learn and

Lisa 5:51

Mm-hmm.

Lawrence Ellyard 5:52

humility hopefully.

Lisa 5:53

Yeah, it's always the, the more I know, the less I know, isn't it? It's that, yeah.

Lawrence Ellyard 5:57

yeah

From fringe to mainstream: wellness finds its evidence

Lisa 5:58

I, totally agree. And I think, my Reiki was very similar in that kind of it, it just happened, and then once you feel that energy and you have it pass through, it's almost like for me, I just had an itching to know more and to understand it at a deeper level. Um, but back then no- no one really knew about it, and we, you know, we've really lived through a lot of resistance and, you know, I can see now there's a big change in that I think, you know, a lot of healers like you and I or, or people in the wellness industry have had to have a lot of courage to kind of stand up against, you know, some of the, you know, the resistance or, you know, it's not real medicine or it's, you know, quackery or, you know, and I kind of think, you know, how... And, and especially now with AI coming into the piece, you know, I'm really, really wondering from your experience where you see longevity as playing a part in, in kind of those practitioners that have kind of stood the test of time, and how we navigate through, you know, yeah, through the, the trouble and uncertainty and the challenges that we face and, and I guess what, you know, what exciting things you see because, because I guess it is mainstream now. It's not becoming mainstream. We're at, we're at... We have finally arrived at the point where it's no longer, you know, we're no longer laughed out of the room

Lawrence Ellyard 7:17

Uh-huh. Yeah

Lisa 7:18

We tell them what we do and it's, it's actually nice place to be in. So yeah. What's, what's around that?

Lawrence Ellyard 7:24

Well, yeah, I think the wellness industry has certainly come a long way and yeah, back when I started and probably similar, like you said, you know, for you it was, you were just like, "Oh, that's fringe," and that's, you know, woo-woo,

Lisa 7:36

Anyway, mm.

Lawrence Ellyard 7:37

stuff. No substance to it, right?

Lisa 7:40

Yeah, and b- yet the experience of it is totally that. Like, the experience of when we do the work, it's always, it was always such a knowing because we'd see the results. We just didn't have the science to measure what we were doing and what we were seeing, as in the anecdotal evidence was certainly there.

Lawrence Ellyard 7:57

And I, I think, you know, it A- and fair call too, right? 'Cause, you know, unless you have a direct experience of something it's very hard to say it's, it- it's

Lisa 8:06

Just trust me

Lawrence Ellyard 8:07

people want to, have, their direct, validation.

Lisa 8:09

Mm-hmm.

Lawrence Ellyard 8:10

I remember, you know, teaching Reiki to a number of, different medical professionals like, you know, m-

Lisa 8:15

Oh

Lawrence Ellyard 8:16

MDs, doctors, and whatnot, and, one lady in particular, she, she was a real insomniac.

Lisa 8:21

Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 8:22

take sleeping pills and like literally almost addicted to them, you know, every night having to do sleeping pills for years and years and years.

Lisa 8:29

Mm-hmm.

Lawrence Ellyard 8:29

And I remember her coming along to a Reiki workshop and, I just said, "Oh, do the Reiki on yourself and it can help you sleep and promote that," and whatnot.

Lisa 8:37

Mm-hmm.

Lawrence Ellyard 8:38

she came back the next day like eyes wide open going, "I can't believe it. It's the first night in years where I've fell asleep naturally." and ever since, she was like totally fine. So, simple things like that can have a quite a profound and lasting effect on people.

Lisa 8:52

Mm-hmm.

Credibility without losing yourself

Lawrence Ellyard 8:53

I think it's important too that, you know, 'cause sometimes within the wellness industry people get very excited and they go, "Oh, it'll cure everything. Cure cancer. Cure..."

Lisa 9:01

Mm-hmm.

Lawrence Ellyard 9:01

know, and

Lisa 9:03

Just gotta be careful with that.

Lawrence Ellyard 9:05

yeah, you gotta be careful, right?

Lisa 9:06

Mm. Of course. Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 9:08

profound effects, and people can have transformative experiences. I think it's important, you know, to use a level of discernment and, um, stay in your lane as well. You know, we, we have that with the, um, global accreditation body that I've, uh, established, you know, 25 year or 24 years ago, that, uh, you know, we have that people that are in wellness spaces and, you know, are qualified that they stay within their, um, mode of Practice. They don't

Lisa 9:36

yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 9:36

I'm, I've haven't done training in this area, but I'm gonna give it a go." So, you know, so again, I think it's important that people, you know, if we want to, um, elevate credibility in the industry and for people to take us seriously, then it's also about making sure that people are professional and,

Lisa 9:52

Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 9:52

the practice that's linked to their qualification and, all of that, you know. So I think that that can certainly help to foster greater confidence for people who are, you know, trying say natural therapies or alternative medicine, um, as a, as a new approach. And it's also not to say that, traditional allopathic medicine's no good, and you should

Lisa 10:14

I always see it as a complement rather than an alternative to. Like, I kinda think why does it have to be one or the other? And I've always kind of with my students said, "Let's not call it an alternative," like it's a complement to modern medicine. And, you know, as a, yeah, as a Reiki I've, I've used both Reiki and when my daughter had, her appendix rupture, of course I was using Reiki to help manage her pain because she was in excruciating pain. But oh my gosh, did I want her in surgery, and did I want the anesthetic and all the medicine and the antibiotics and everything that came with it. So, and same, my husband had leukemia and again, had he not have gone through chemotherapy treatment, and this was in the early days, I did Reiki before I got married and before I had kids. And, we used a combination of both energy healing, trusting, positive, looking at the mind and how it, how it kind of informs the body. And all of it makes, yeah, makes a difference. But I just wanna point out as well, there's something that we've seen a change with the industry where there's a lot of certifications coming out very quickly, and I've seen it, in, in a couple of different modalities that I operate under. And I think one of the things I love about IICT, which is,

Lawrence Ellyard 11:23

The International Institute.

Lisa 11:25

for

Lawrence Ellyard 11:26

Complmentary Therapies

Lisa 11:27

It is a long name.

Lawrence Ellyard 11:28

yeah, I wish I'd chose a simple, short name, but hey.

Lisa 11:31

You can't go back now. IICT

Lawrence Ellyard 11:33

I know, it's like not so good. Anyway,

Lisa 11:35

is how I've always said it, but yeah, I think knowing that there's a governing body that kind of does, lend to, you know, to the credibility is important.

The swallow test: how his body makes the calls

Lisa 11:44

But I wanna say also that you've always been an innovative thinker, and I know that when COVID hit, we had a phone call and, you know, we're in uncertain times. I had a lot of students that were in all different pipelines and, I, I don't think I actually personally got to thank you, but you know, where others were kind of holding back and going, "No, let's just stick with what has been done in the past," you kind of took a bit of a risk and we both took a leap of faith because there was that, that history and the longevity of the training to lean on, which I think is important. Um, and as we're moving forward personal, what is it that makes us human that people can rely on? And at the same time also knowing that we're here to test the waters and try new things. So how do you make those choices Lawrence in business when you're on the leading edge? But also we've, gotta maintain credibility, do you drop into heart awareness, or how do you make those choices?

Lawrence Ellyard 13:27

Yeah. Well, I think it, it's not so much I, I think having done a lot of stuff for a lot of years, it's not like, "Oh, okay, now I've got to get into the zone." Um, I feel like I can just change gears, like changing gears in a car pretty quickly.

Lisa 13:42

Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 13:42

so for me, it, it's really like I come back to the body and I... Does... You know, does the body like uplift it or is it pushing back? Or, you know, as, in other words, you know, trusting intuition or your gut instinct, whatever you wanna call it. So there's various ways to check if, something's true or right for you, which doesn't mean it's true or right for somebody else. It's about, you know, physiology and, and your, you know, how your body and your, consciousness meet, you know? And how, how we work

Lisa 14:11

Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 14:12

that. So, um, yeah. O- one recent, um, test that I, I got shown by, um, a dear friend. She said, um, "Do the swallow test" And the swallow... this is a very practical part, okay, for the, for the show where someone...

Lisa 14:25

Awesome.

Lawrence Ellyard 14:26

can all try this if you want. Um, so you, you simply state something that is true for you. So I might say, "My name is Lawrence Eliott."

Lisa 14:33

Yeah.

Lawrence Ellyard 14:34

I can swallow,

Lisa 14:35

I'm an author.

Lawrence Ellyard 14:36

Yeah. I- or whatever

Lisa 14:37

I can swallow. Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 14:39

can say something that's completely not true, and I try to swallow it, I physically can't swallow.

Lisa 14:43

Wow.

Lawrence Ellyard 14:44

Yeah.

Lisa 14:44

Okay. Try it out. Try it out

Lawrence Ellyard 14:46

Yeah, all right. I'm Adolf Hitler. I can't swallow. Like, my body's like, "No, no you're not" You know, so I could, uh, use

Lisa 14:54

Yeah, interesting

Lawrence Ellyard 14:54

then of saying, you know, "Is it in my highest good or best interest to do X, Y, Z at this time?" Whatever it is. And again, the body will be like, "Yeah, that's what you need" so you can swallow it. Um, if you can't, then it's a clear indication that it's not the right thing. So can use this, you can use your, um, the swallow reflex as a divination tool effectively in your

Lisa 15:15

Yeah, fantastic. And it's always with you. You don't need to go reach for cards or,

Lawrence Ellyard 15:20

No, exactly.

Lisa 15:21

crystals or...

Lawrence Ellyard 15:21

it's free.

Lisa 15:23

yeah.

Lawrence Ellyard 15:23

Yeah.

Lisa 15:24

It's part of your body, yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 15:25

So, um, that's not, that's n- not a bad one to try out, you

Lisa 15:28

Mm-hmm.

Lawrence Ellyard 15:28

Cause what's happening is you bypass the ego, uh, and you're going to, consciousness itself is communicating directly with your body and it's, it's a direct pathway, you know? And there's other ways to do it like with muscle testing.

Lisa 15:40

Mm.

Lawrence Ellyard 15:40

perform a ring and,

Lisa 15:41

Kinesiology. Yeah.

Lawrence Ellyard 15:42

you pull it through,

Lisa 15:43

Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 15:44

based on the question, is your body strong? Is it weak? Depending. but other things too. You know? You tune into yourself. It's that idea of like embracing for a hug or a sense of like, "Whoa, no. This feels off. Something's not right here" So,

Lisa 15:58

Yeah.

Lawrence Ellyard 15:59

after a while one gets quite, good at knowing what's

Lisa 16:03

The same

Lawrence Ellyard 16:04

and what's not. So for me when it comes to like decisions or business or whatever it is I, I usually go back to the body 'cause it's a really good measure for... A good diagnostic tool you could say for what's appropriate

Lisa 16:16

Yeah, you know, it's interesting 'cause I think, you know, o- over the years we're always relearning what it is we're teaching and I, you know, I've personally found that, you know, what I'm really here to teach is trusting your intuition. And so quite often I'll have experiences where I don't, and have to live through that, the difficult lessons or where I've just relied on my head and analyzing too much and logic and, and all what might look good on paper even though I have this feeling of there's a reservation or trusting in it someone else's wisdom instead of, you know, tuning into my own. And yeah, it was quite a recent experience, where I was just brought back to my body and, and even, it was through a therapist that I saw, 'cause I think healers heal yourself. We always need to go and get support from others. Especially when life becomes challenging. And she actually took me through a journey of visiting different conversations that I've had with different people, and I could feel the body's response even retrospectively. So going back to maybe a difficult conversation and just seeing how quickly the body will give me an instinct and in- information? And then likewise, when I'm with friends, that it just feels easy and comfortable and there's no difficult... It's just an openness and a warmth and a love, and I think it's really valuable just to remind, uh, healers and lightworkers and anyone really listening to the podcast just to keep coming back to the body. 'Cause it's funny, I've found when I'm stressed or, it's the simple practices that I avoid, that I'll go and ask people instead of just tuning in and... or,

Lawrence Ellyard 17:42

Yeah

Lisa 17:43

to those writing practices. There's resistance, right? I think it's the ego. It just gets in and makes life more complicated than perhaps it needs to be.

Lawrence Ellyard 17:52

Yeah. And a good way to bypass the ego is the breath, right? So you can come

Lisa 17:56

Ah

Lawrence Ellyard 17:56

to just doing some deep, you know, conscious breathing and then

Lisa 17:59

Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 18:00

land, and then from there ask the question or whatever it is. And,

Lisa 18:04

Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 18:04

where, a lot of people in the, you know, that are the healers or do healing work or body work or things like that, they're very kinesthetic, right? They're very touch-based.

Lisa 18:13

Very sensitive too. Yeah.

Lawrence Ellyard 18:15

sensitive, right? But it

Lisa 18:16

Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 18:16

up in language and people go, "Oh, that feels good," or, "That feels..." or, "I, I feel I'm in alignment with that." So the word feel, you know, the using language that points to the, the mode of, um, experiencing the world that they're most attuned to, right?

Lisa 18:33

Yeah.

Lawrence Ellyard 18:33

it can be quite interesting to notice how people talk, you know? Uh, so if someone's like say, "Oh yeah, I really see what you're saying," you know, "I get a picture of like myself in this situation," so it's then they're using visual as the main...

Lisa 18:45

Maybe so.

Lawrence Ellyard 18:46

Yeah.

Lisa 18:47

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Lawrence Ellyard 18:48

it's just interesting to see what comes up for people and how they interact with, with the world. So and it's a good thing to notice yourself, you know. You can kind of be the

Lisa 18:56

Mum

Lawrence Ellyard 18:56

watching, know, yourself as if, uh, watching a film. Uh,

Lisa 19:01

yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 19:02

and then, you know, noticing what you do. I mean, the, the biggest insight I think for people when they get on their spiritual path, they realize that they're actually the, movie director of their lives

Rewriting your story to build capacity

Lawrence Ellyard 19:11

and they, they can, um, play the movie. But you can also replay movies, like old patterns, old ways of being, uh, old stories that we might strongly identify with and say, "Actually, what if, what if the movie was done differently?" Yeah? So it's

Lisa 19:26

reprogramming Mm-hmm.

Lawrence Ellyard 19:26

way of transforming past problems. Yeah, redo it, you know? Like what if, uh, my relationship to my parents or even my grandparents, they had everything they needed and they were really resourced and they were like emotionally intelligent and they were fulfilled humans. What, what would they be like then? A- and what would I receive then as the child from a parent that was like that, you know? So

Lisa 19:50

Mm-hmm

Lawrence Ellyard 19:51

necessarily, uh, we don't necessarily have to be fixed by the stories of our lives. We can reshape them in our minds, and our body doesn't know the difference

Lisa 20:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 20:03

to reprogram and, and reestablish a new relationship to our past, which then obviously informs our future and, uh, it

Lisa 20:11

Angie Singh

Lawrence Ellyard 20:11

how we can show up in the world and what we can contribute. And, um, most of these things usually come down to capacity. Um, like we're, if we're super overwhelmed, then we don't have a lot of capacity,

Lisa 20:22

Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 20:23

we don't have much to give, right? 'Cause we're just treading water or we're dealing with stress or whatever it might be. So,

Lisa 20:28

Mm-hmm.

Lawrence Ellyard 20:28

know, of course it's important to take stock and look at how you can, you know, elevate and support yourself. And then from that place of surplus, then we can be more, um, accommodating or supportive of other people, you know. But of course, if someone's drowning in the water, you don't them to go save somebody. You, you throw in something to help them, right?

Lisa 20:47

Yeah, that's it. That is it, you know, and I think, I think it's, um, you know, a lot of the sensitive people that I work with and students that are, you know, learning and developing, um, there, there is always this pattern of self-awareness and, and self-work that we're doing as well as being able to hold a space and help others and I kind of think, um, for me there was a breaking down of the ego where I got to a point where the bi- the bigger I got and the busier I was there was more pressure I put on myself to kind of, uh, lead this, you know, humble life where I was putting pressure on myself to be spiritual and I, I must admit there was kind of a breaking through where I came to an understanding that we're also just a little human being you know, doing, doing the best we can with all that we are and I've kind of found that there's a real vulnerability in being, you know, being aware of the human nature and knowing that there could be moments of brilliance and, you know, pure, you know, pure connection to that greater part of us or the big I am versus the little I am but, um, yeah, I wonder, I wonder as, as you've seen and taught, you know, or kind of been around thousands of practitioners over the years, is there any one kind of pattern that you've seen emerge from people that do, uh, you know, do really succeed in the industry that kind of holds them over that, you know, over that test of time I guess that would benefit the listeners?

Lawrence Ellyard 22:12

Yeah. I think the, um, the people I've seen do this well and actually expand capacity and, and reach a lot of people, they're

Why courage comes before confidence

Lawrence Ellyard 22:20

generally not there from a place of self-interest. They're actually genuinely there from a place of, how can I be of

Lisa 22:27

Hadn't we served

Lawrence Ellyard 22:28

So their contri- contribution being a, a significant pillar.

Lisa 22:32

Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 22:33

and they're also people that are very, uh, attuned to being 100% responsible for all their joy and all their misfor- fortune, you know?

Lisa 22:42

Yeah.

Lawrence Ellyard 22:43

right? So

Lisa 22:44

Yeah,

Lawrence Ellyard 22:44

they're generally very good at ownership and responsibility. They, they take account for the challenges. Um, the people who stay small, I think are, are usually playing the victim game or the blame game or the one day when game and, and so forth. Yeah, so rather than just seeing every moment as a opportunity and a po- potential possibility, living

Lisa 23:07

Lesson.

Lawrence Ellyard 23:07

the lens of curiosity.

Lisa 23:10

Yeah, I love that. Yeah, yeah.

Lawrence Ellyard 23:12

I, I don't know the story of you

Lisa 23:14

Mm,

Lawrence Ellyard 23:14

or the

Lisa 23:15

mm,

Lawrence Ellyard 23:15

other, and that would be foolish of me to think that I might know,

Lisa 23:19

Yeah.

Lawrence Ellyard 23:19

it's your story, right? So again,

Lisa 23:21

Yeah,

Lawrence Ellyard 23:22

And often we, we get very consumed by the ideas that, oh, th- they're thinking this or that about me, and actually most people are just thinking about themselves most of the time,

Lisa 23:31

Yeah. I remember listening to Oprah Winfrey. She was talking about, she was saying that no matter how, uh, successful people were that they interviewed, 99% of them would say at the end, "Was that okay?" You know, because there's always this self-reflection, isn't it? Or, you know, we, we, we tend to think, um, yeah, think a lot about how we're perceived in the world and,

Lawrence Ellyard 23:52

Exactly.

Lisa 23:53

I think it's a natural Yeah.

Lawrence Ellyard 23:54

we need others usually too, right? We get feedback as our barometer, so when people say, "Oh, was that okay?" It's maybe not coming from insecurity, it's just to check, you know, where it's at and

Lisa 24:04

Yeah.

Lawrence Ellyard 24:05

land.

Lisa 24:06

Yep

Lawrence Ellyard 24:06

I, I can say something with the best intentions and, you know, the

Lisa 24:11

Might not have come out the right way

Lawrence Ellyard 24:12

coming through their filter or their lens, they're like,

Lisa 24:15

Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 24:15

"Whoa, that was really full on." And I'm like, "Wow, I thought it was being, like,

Lisa 24:18

Yeah, I thought I was being really genuine.

Lawrence Ellyard 24:23

Absolutely. Yeah, exactly. So we don't know, because people are viewing reality through their lens, you know? It's like

Lisa 24:25

Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 24:26

lens o- over a camera, you know? It changes the way it looks. And, um, so again, so I, I, I tend to approach life and people or interactions from this place of curiosity, right? And when I get good feedback, what, what does that do? That it helps in,

Lisa 24:42

It helps us. It's a...

Lawrence Ellyard 24:43

uh, confidence

Lisa 24:45

Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 24:45

and confidence in ourself. But the thing that precedes confidence is actually courage, because

Lisa 24:51

Yes, agree

Lawrence Ellyard 24:53

we don't take the leap, if we don't take the risk of being seen, the risk of, being

Lisa 24:59

Failing.

Lawrence Ellyard 25:00

being a fool or l-

Lisa 25:01

Yeah. Or being criticized, like especially in the social media world, you know, it's, um, yeah, I think it's not really talked about a lot, the courage that it takes. And also, I think taking action. I've found that taking small action steps has kind of led to my success, and not thinking too far ahead. Like I, I know when I was writing my book, I put a picture up of me being interviewed by Oprah on my life vision board. And I'm like... And then I'd sit down to write, and it was, like, too big, and I was wondering why I just kept feeling this not good enough coming up. And then I just... I looked and I'm like, "What am I doing?" Like, that's such a big goal. And I ended up taking it down, and then I just thought, "Let my message just reach one person and let that be enough." And as soon as I just... Or let it just be me healing myself through my journey and through telling my story that as soon as I simplified, you know, the goal in my own mind, it became easier. And, and I found that, yeah, just one step at a time

Lawrence Ellyard 25:58

Mm-hmm

Lisa 25:58

allows us... We, we kind of need to hold both as well, so yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 26:02

There's something in, you know, the stretch and, and pushing just that discomfort level, and then

Lisa 26:08

Yeah.

Lawrence Ellyard 26:08

where it's like, you know, it's so

Lisa 26:10

But how much?

Lawrence Ellyard 26:11

Your ego's like, "Come on. You can't do that. Who are you?" You

Lisa 26:16

But

Lawrence Ellyard 26:17

it is,

Lisa 26:17

I think that's important too, isn't it? It levels us. You know, I always think that, you know, we, we, we get into humility and then we, you know, something will booster our confidence and we'll, we'll start to fluff up our, you know, our chest a little bit. And then, and then if we get a little bit too egoic, some- something will come and knock us back down off our perch, and I think life has a way of leveling us out, which I think is a good thing, right?

Lawrence Ellyard 26:41

And I think it also speaks to like one's upper limit, and that's usually

Lisa 26:45

Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 26:45

self-love, self-worth, you know, am I enough? Um, you know, and again, identification outside. Will the others love, appreciate, you know, see me? All those things, you know. So it's

Lisa 26:56

Yeah.

Lawrence Ellyard 26:57

um, as we grow, we're gonna hit those growing pains where we hit our upper limit, and it's, and then go, do I be courageous now and, and push forward, uh, with best, you know, intention and

Lisa 27:10

Yes, yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 27:11

to get a better result," right? Or do I play it safe? Do I play small? Do I, you know, not take responsibility for whatever calamities ar-

Lisa 27:22

Yeah, I remember

Lawrence Ellyard 27:23

you know?

Lisa 27:24

my Reiki master, that was one of the first things she taught me actually, was self-responsibility. And I remember, you know, coming to her and I'd had

The self-responsibility lesson

Lisa 27:30

an argument with someone, I was like, "Oh, she made me feel this and she made me feel that." And really just in that drama and in the... And she's just like, "And who's holding that right now?" And, and it was such a powerful lesson, 'cause it did just break me out of that victimhood. And it's not to say I didn't go back there, 'cause I did. Certainly have, um, as is, you know, the life lessons. But yeah, you know, again, it just, that's empowering when we come back to what we can, you know, what we can, um, create and be aware of in terms of that responsibility. Totally agree with you there, Lawrence. Um, I do wanna attach, and I've been watching some of your socials and as part of the research for the podcast, listening to some of the interviews that you've done. And I do just wanna say that there is a real authenticity that comes through and a genuine care for people that you're speaking with and speaking to. So I just wanted to say that, 'cause it's really, it's nice. It's nice when you can, um, you know, feel that genuine care and compassion and as... You know, I've known you for years, but we haven't engaged personally much. So this is a beautiful thing about podcasts, isn't it? It allows people a window into our humanity a bit more than perhaps we might experience, um, from the outside or just from, you know, the limited contact we have. So thank you for that, first of all. And I did see that you had recently shared experience with Sir Richard Branson- Mm and I thought,

What Richard Branson taught him about presence

Lisa 28:52

what was that like? What was some of the things you learnt from him on that journey? Because that must've been wild to, to meet him.

Lawrence Ellyard 29:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a very gracious gentleman, I'd say. And, um,

Lisa 29:04

Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 29:05

yeah, yeah. So, uh, what, what I What stood out to me about him is he's very curious about people, and he's also

Lisa 29:13

Okay.

Lawrence Ellyard 29:14

with people. So he,

Lisa 29:15

That's such a gift

Lawrence Ellyard 29:16

really just sits and just like, "Oh, he's really interested," like genuinely.

Lisa 29:20

Yeah.

Lawrence Ellyard 29:21

he, yeah, he has quite, you know, um, presence and an ability to really engage. Um, 'cause, you know, sometimes you talk to people and they're kind of like half here and half somewhere else, you know?

Lisa 29:30

mm-hmm.

Lawrence Ellyard 29:31

And, um, yeah, so I think experiencing someone with their presence so dialed in as him w- was great. And yeah, he's just really about like what's the legacy, what's the impact, you know? He's, he's, he's doesn't really need to make any more money. It's more about, "Well, how do I, uh, contribute?" So most of the stuff I saw with him when I was on Necker Island with him, he was talking with his, um, CEO who runs all the Virgin Group companies, and they were like, "Oh, okay, we've got this much here. We're gonna allocate that to this, you know, uh, reef project, and this one's for the oceans." And,

Lisa 30:04

Wow

Lawrence Ellyard 30:05

pretty much all the conversations were about, uh, Virgin Unite and, uh, contribution and obviously

Lisa 30:11

It's incredible

Lawrence Ellyard 30:12

the day-to-day operations of all the different things, you know. But I mean, yeah, but Richard's just this amazing, entrepreneur, right, and

Lisa 30:18

Yeah,

Lawrence Ellyard 30:19

inspiration for so many people. But yeah,

Lisa 30:21

Mm.

Lawrence Ellyard 30:22

it's nice to, you know, y- you meet someone like that who you idolize at the same time, you know, is just again a normal human being. You know, he's, he's a granddad and he's a you know, he's a

Lisa 30:33

Yeah, but keep them.

Lawrence Ellyard 30:34

guy.

Lisa 30:35

Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 30:35

very much into his health and biohacking and, he outpaced most people on mountain bikes in the morning going for a morning ride and

Lisa 30:43

Wow.

Lawrence Ellyard 30:43

no one could keep up with him. He's 76.

Lisa 30:46

Yeah, that's amazing.

Lawrence Ellyard 30:47

I let him

Lisa 30:48

Yeah.

Lawrence Ellyard 30:48

beat me at chess

Lisa 30:50

Did she?

Lawrence Ellyard 30:51

as well. He was very kind to me. Yeah, yeah.

Lisa 30:52

Very nice.

Lawrence Ellyard 30:52

he

Lisa 30:53

Is she huffing and puffing behind you?

Lawrence Ellyard 30:55

Yeah, yeah. No, so he was great. Um, yeah, so I, I, I think the main thing too, though, you know, people who are like famous or celebrities and whatnot is just treat them normally. Don't

Lisa 31:06

Mm.

Lawrence Ellyard 31:07

to be You know, don't edify them and, and put on a persona. You know, just be

Lisa 31:11

It must be a little bit hard not to with him and with just what he's created in the world, isn't it?

Lawrence Ellyard 31:15

know.

Lisa 31:16

that's just not an, it's not a usual experience. I would imagine that would be quite hard not to get a little bit not to get a little bit,

Lawrence Ellyard 31:24

I don't know.

Lisa 31:25

speechless around him.

Lawrence Ellyard 31:26

Yeah, no, I was just sort of cheeky with him and just talked to

Lisa 31:28

Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. That's probably what he would appreciate as well, 'cause I g-

Lawrence Ellyard 31:29

a normal guy,

Lisa 31:30

I guess you

Lawrence Ellyard 31:31

uh, it w-

Lisa 31:33

just want people to be real and, and

Lawrence Ellyard 31:37

Yeah.

Lisa 31:38

yeah,

Lawrence Ellyard 31:39

And

Lisa 31:39

to meet you where you're at

Lawrence Ellyard 31:40

like, um, my partner and I were there, and we're one of the couple of Australians on the island at the time, and he goes, "Oh yeah, Virgin, you know, uh, Airlines" And he's like, "Oh, you, you could fly... obviously you fly Virgin all the time." And I said, "Oh yeah, sometimes." And he goes, "All right. Somebody remove these people, have them taken off the island" You know, as a joke. So you know, I think, um, you know, approaching life with a certain degree of levity and, and humor and joy and, you know, a- and being a bit, you know, cheeky, which he, he is as well, right? You know, he's just like that.

Lisa 32:14

yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 32:15

so yeah, just be real and, and then, you know, people can relax.

Lisa 32:18

Mm-hmm.

Lawrence Ellyard 32:19

I've been around, you know... fortunate to be around some, you know, very high level, uh, spiritual masters and teachers and stuff as well, and obviously go- people go with a level of reverence and respect, but be, be yourself.

Lisa 32:32

Yeah. Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 32:33

people, you know, sort of bowing down and, know, pe-

Lisa 32:37

Makes it, must make it awkward for them as well, doesn't it? Because,

Lawrence Ellyard 32:40

it does. Yeah. And I,

Lisa 32:41

yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 32:41

seen... I've witnessed that, and you can just see them going like, "Oh, God," you know, "Here we

Lisa 32:46

Nem.

Lawrence Ellyard 32:46

again" Or like, "Oh, how embarrassing" Or please don't do that. Just be, just be yourself, you know? And of course, so any, any of these, um, teachers that are really authentic and genuine, they are like that. Uh, and if they're pretending to be something else, then it becomes actually pretty obvious,

Lisa 33:04

And doesn't the body know it and yeah, it's, it's, it's... Yeah, it's very, um, yeah, very easily evident I think. a lot of the healers that I teach tend to be a little bit hard on themselves, and they tend to struggle with self-belief

Begin before you're ready

Lisa 33:20

is kind of a pattern that I've seen emerging.

Lawrence Ellyard 33:23

Yeah

Lisa 33:23

and I guess from my experience, the, the ones that succeed are the ones that get out there and do it, and have that courage and, and take action. So is there any words of wisdom that you can share that might make that journey a little bit easier or anything that you can kind of say to people that might be just sitting on the fence or just going, "I, I..." you know, "One day when," um, that might just help them to realize, yeah, the world needs them? Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 33:48

Yeah. So I first I'd say begin it right now. Like, don't go, "Oh, this afternoon or tomorrow or next week or next year or, or wait for the perfect conditions," 'cause there

Lisa 33:59

Not exist.

Lawrence Ellyard 34:01

a time. You know, people say, "Oh, you know, when is the best time, you know, to have a child?" Well, there's never

Lisa 34:07

Oh,

Lawrence Ellyard 34:07

good

Lisa 34:07

no. And you can never afford them, so you may as well just start.

Lawrence Ellyard 34:10

it's like, you know, and, and, and sometimes people go like, "Oh, when I've, you know, when I've made a certain amount of money, then I'll go and get myself into a relationship 'cause I can provide" or, or whatever it is, you know? So I think, yeah, I think stay messy, be authentic and, and just take action and you're gonna mess up, and that's expected, and that's good, actually. know, so I think making, find all the errors and the mistakes, and then move through them quickly. And ob- obviously try not to repeat the same mistakes over and over, 'cause that would be stupid.

Lisa 34:42

Yeah. Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 34:43

do that 'cause they n- they need the lesson, right? But people are like, "Okay, I'll learn from that and, and maybe I'll do

Lisa 34:51

Do what you need to do to fix it, make it right, apologize if you need to apologize, and then move forward, yeah. And I think sometimes it's that, it's that people beat themselves up a little bit too much and hang, hang over what they've done or where they've gone wrong. And I think that is, um, yeah, great advice just to accept it, accept the humanity of it, that we all make mistakes. And it's also, I don't think there's ever an entrepreneur that's been successful that hasn't had a lot of, you know, mistakes in their past because, you know, I just think you're not trying hard enough if you haven't fallen on your face a few times.

Lawrence Ellyard 35:24

Oh, for sure. So you wanna, you know, be, be good at forgiving yourself and be

Lisa 35:28

Ehh

Lawrence Ellyard 35:28

to forgive others and, um, and just keep going, keep moving. And I think, um, entrepreneurs that really go forward have a, a certain level of grit and determination just to kind of keep going.

Lisa 35:39

Yeah.

Lawrence Ellyard 35:40

and

Lisa 35:40

of obsession over their craft.

Lawrence Ellyard 35:42

exactly. You gotta just

Lisa 35:43

Been accused of that a few times by my husband. He's like, "You're working too much." I'm like, "But I love it. I have to stop working." Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 35:50

I think it's a great quality because it, it's, you know, if you love something then you, you work and move towards it with your

Lisa 35:57

Mm-hmm.

Lawrence Ellyard 35:57

heart and

Lisa 35:58

Whole heart. Yeah.

Lawrence Ellyard 36:00

and yes, of course, you know,

Lisa 36:01

Mm-hmm

Lawrence Ellyard 36:02

make mistakes, and that's a beautiful thing too. So there's a lot to be learned, you know. We gain humility, we gain, uh, new knowledge every time, you know. It's this idea that, um, fail fast

Lisa 36:13

Yes. Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 36:15

and keep striving and, you know, do it with kindness and curiosity and be compassionate to yourself and others. And, um, you know, I think that that's pretty good medicine. And notice when you're getting caught up or you're getting dramatic unnecessarily,

Lisa 36:29

Yeah, Yeah,

Lawrence Ellyard 36:30

So just go like, "Okay, well, I, I don't need to do that." And, um, I think, you know, f- uh, being forgiving is also quite, uh, good to, again, to ourself and others, you know. If we don't forgive somebody else, then we're actually hurting ourselves and them,

Lisa 36:44

Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 36:45

we can ex- at least extend that kindness towards them and ourselves and,

Lisa 36:49

Mm-hmm.

Lawrence Ellyard 36:49

know, then we don't have to kind of keep repeating similar patterns, you know?

Lisa 36:53

Mm. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I know with the Reiki philosophy, we come back to, gratitude as an antidote to anger and worry. I remember

Gratitude, legacy and staying childlike

Lisa 37:01

I'd been teaching Reiki for years and came across a great book, um, uh, I can't think of his name right now, but he, you know, he told me, "Oh, the antidote for anger and worry was actually in the Reiki principles."

Lawrence Ellyard 37:14

Mm-hmm

Lisa 37:14

And I'm just like, oh, that's so amazing that there's such depth in the principles that, uh, you know, th- this is what it's like when we live it, we live through it. So, um, coming back to a gratitude practice, is it something that you still use to this day? Uh, or what is it that you're grateful for in your life right now, Lawrence?

Lawrence Ellyard 37:32

Uh, look, I, I'd say my family and friends and the people, you know, also grate- grateful to all the wonderful teachers I've had the,

Lisa 37:41

Mm-hmm.

Lawrence Ellyard 37:41

to spend time with and, and be with, and mentors as well. So yeah, I think, you know, I'm on sort of the other side of 50 now, so I'm, you know,

Lisa 37:49

Yeah, I'm there next year.

Lawrence Ellyard 37:51

Yeah, there you go, you know, thinking, okay,

Lisa 37:53

Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 37:53

legacy look like? What's, what's contribution? know, those, those questions start to get more exciting because it's like, "Well, what can I give back? How can I..." you know, I've been so heavily mentored my whole life and now, you know, younger people are going, "Hey, you know, would you mentor me?" And I, I don't formally do it, but you know, there are people I, I help out here and there because it's like I've been fortunate to have such great support, so of course it's great to give that back as well from a place of hopefully wisdom. Uh, and it's useful, right? So

Lisa 38:23

definitely

Lawrence Ellyard 38:23

yeah. So I think, gratitude is a, is a good practice anyway, and it, it's a good thing to do before you go to sleep, uh, at night, is to think about, well, what... You know, we can lay there and lament all the ways that we stuffed up, or we can lay there and go, "What have I got that's rich in my life? What, what, what can I be thankful for?" You know? And then we can wake up the next morning going like, "What can I give?" Yeah.

Lisa 38:47

beautiful. How can I serve? How can I help? Yeah Yeah, thank It's another day Mm. It's a beautiful innocent state, isn't it? Children just walk into the world with just this hopefulness, and then, yeah, it's, um, it's beautiful to keep that and to be in that space with them. I think that's one of the gifts of being parents, isn't it?

Lawrence Ellyard 39:38

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I, I had a, I, I asked this, uh, incredible, uh, Advaita Vedanta master, like someone completely, I think no ego, completely awake. And I said, "What's

Lisa 39:48

yeah,

Lawrence Ellyard 39:49

like being you?" And he said, "I'm just like a child running naked down the beach."

Lisa 39:56

Just having fun with life.

Lawrence Ellyard 39:57

Yeah. He's in this state of just like, "Ah, I'm the best dad." that's just how he is all the time. And he's like this

Lisa 40:03

Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 40:03

in this state of wonderment all the

Lisa 40:06

Isn't that amazing?

Lawrence Ellyard 40:07

Everything's like, "Wow. Oh." You know? It's like, like, you know, like kids watching fireworks in the

Lisa 40:13

And seeing everything for the first time with that sense of everything's appreciated. Yeah. I remember having a moment in a healing center I was in where, you know, we had the privilege of meeting with, you know, a very reverent man, and he came in and, and he'd, he'd come from India, and he was coming for a visit. And, and it, you know, it was There was something weird about the energy that they bring into a space. Like, the phones stop ringing. It, you know, there was this dynamic energy that happened that you can't put your finger on. But the one thing I remembered from the conversation was how much we all laughed. Like, we all just sat there, and we were so You, you're right about that presence. They bring an element of presence that just draws you in, and it's magnetic, isn't it? And it's so beautiful. And I think, I think our spiritual practices teach us that too. It teaches us to come back into connection, you know, with something greater than us. And, and any time we get to, to tap into that channeled state or that, that place that's so divine, don't you just get Don't you just taste it and just want more? And

Lawrence Ellyard 41:15

exactly right. Yeah.

Lisa 41:16

just, uh,

Lawrence Ellyard 41:16

a

Lisa 41:16

to see that possibility, yeah, and to experience it when we can.

Lawrence Ellyard 41:20

Like good drugs that are

Lisa 41:21

It is.

Lawrence Ellyard 41:21

highly addictive but very good for you, right?

Lisa 41:24

And natural, right?

Lawrence Ellyard 41:25

natural, right?

Lisa 41:26

Not synthetic.

Lawrence Ellyard 41:27

right. So yeah, you know,

Lisa 41:29

Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 41:29

is the opportunity that's there all the time actually. It's just a matter of, choosing it as a state or practicing it until it becomes, so normal for you. My, Buddhist master, he used to say, "Just keep putting the face of the Buddha on, and eventually you can't take the mask off." You,

Lisa 41:43

Do we become it?

Lawrence Ellyard 41:45

you become, you know, it becomes

Lisa 41:47

Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 41:48

intertwined with your skin, and then you are that experience of, aha and awake and ah, you know? This,

Lisa 41:55

Oh, I love that. And that kindness, compassion,

Lawrence Ellyard 41:59

tell,

Lisa 42:00

isn't it?

Lawrence Ellyard 42:00

sign of someone who's

Lisa 42:02

Yeah.

Lawrence Ellyard 42:02

on is they're generally very joyful too.

Lisa 42:04

Yeah, yeah.

Lawrence Ellyard 42:06

And they're, they're humorous, and they,

Lisa 42:07

It's a lightness.

Lawrence Ellyard 42:08

you look at life, it's ridiculous,

Lisa 42:10

Yeah, it is, isn't it?

Lawrence Ellyard 42:11

Yeah. So it's like, well, how can you not laugh, you know?

Lisa 42:14

Yeah.

Lawrence Ellyard 42:15

and, and the absurdity of life, right?

Lisa 42:17

yeah, yeah. Is, isn't it interesting? I know you have some big plans. You're the producer of the New Woo? Tell us what projects you're working on or what you would like people to hear about

The New Woo and what's next

Lisa 42:25

Lawrence

Lawrence Ellyard 42:26

Yeah. Well,

Lisa 42:26

connect with you

Lawrence Ellyard 42:27

we're bringing out this film which showcases all of the, world's leading experts in the wellness space and, you know, privileged to get to hang out with these people as

Lisa 42:36

Thank you.

Lawrence Ellyard 42:37

massive impact in the world. so we're doing that and, uh, you know, we're expanding our horizons with IICT and o- offering, you know,

Lisa 42:45

Moving into America?

Lawrence Ellyard 42:46

Yeah, yeah, global, you know, global accreditation and expanding

Lisa 42:50

Yeah

Lawrence Ellyard 42:50

those offerings and, you know, different directories and new things that we're, spearheading for the company. um, yeah, you know, book number 10 in the works and, you know, things like that. So yeah, like, you know, busy, busy. Um, but yeah, again, all these projects are really coming from that space of, you know, like what you said, if it, if it just helps one person, then I've done a good job. You know what I mean? So I, I don't know how far reaching it will be. Hopefully it impacts, you know, millions of people. um, and that's certainly the intention, but it's also about, you know, just authentically showing up and, know, doing what we can to be a positive contribution in the world and ultimately to help, you know, raise the credibility, the standards across the industry so more people are trusted and then they wanna, you know, dip their toes in the water and see how it fits for them. You know? And I, I... It's not a one size fits all. It's a

Lisa 43:42

No.

Lawrence Ellyard 43:43

bespoke, unique thing.

Lisa 43:44

Yeah, and I think having so many different therapies and, and trainings all in the one modality makes it so much easier, you know, for us to have that, yeah, that support from IICT, but also the credibility and the community and yeah. So what's your, what's your new book gonna be about? Have you decided or are you writing and figuring it out as you go?

Lawrence Ellyard 44:04

Oh, no, I've got a, there's a c- few in the works, but yeah, the one- the next one we'll do be- will be called The New Woo, which will take transcripts from the interviews from the documentary and so forth, and we put them in book form as well. So everyone in the film has a chapter in the book, so it might be a big book. Um, and then, yeah, other ones around, um, you know, best bus- you know, a wellness practice in, in a, in a meaningful way and having, you know, big impact. So, yeah, I, I've got a fair bit to say about that subject. So

Lisa 44:35

Yes, I bet

Lawrence Ellyard 44:36

one after that that I'm working on. So yeah, you know, again, it's, it's about, reaching people through various mediums and whether it's, you know, a podcast or an interview or an article or a, this or that, you know, a film, um, or a conversation when we meet someone in the street, like whatever it is, you know. Like I just think that, um, you know, being kind and exhibiting generosity and curiosity is all for free, right? It

Lisa 45:00

Yeah.

Lawrence Ellyard 45:01

anything.

Lisa 45:02

it's also inspiring all of us as well. So thank you, because I have noticed that you've come out from behind the company now, and you're more visual than I've seen you be before, and it's fantastic. So it's nice because, yeah, when we do step out in front of the company, people get to see and know us more. So not always easy, right? Sometimes we would rather stay a little hidden. But, yeah, it's, yeah, been lovely to, to chat with you today, Lawrence. And I will pop all your details. Do you wanna just let everyone know your website and how they can get in contact with you?

Lawrence Ellyard 45:33

Yeah, so it's lawrenceelliott.com is the website and,

How to connect with Lawrence

Lawrence Ellyard 45:37

I do respond to almost all my messages on, uh, Instagram, so it's lawrence_elliott. So if people wanna reach out on or, the website, then yeah, I'm happy to interact and so forth. I still very much believe the personal sort of one-to-one, uh, connection. It's really rich, and it's

Lisa 45:55

Yeah.

Lawrence Ellyard 45:55

for the forefront. So

Lisa 45:56

Absolutely

Lawrence Ellyard 45:57

as we can do that, you know, I'm not that famous where I don't have time to, to not connect to people. So it's good to still do it while we can,

Lisa 46:05

While you can, absolutely.

Lawrence Ellyard 46:08

Yeah, happy to, you know, connect with anyone who, who hears this and wants to reach out.

Lisa 46:13

Well, there you go. Take him up on that, on that offer and get in touch with Lawrence before things do change.

Lawrence Ellyard 46:19

Yeah, yeah, that's it.

Lisa 46:20

All right. Thanks again, Lawrence, for your time today. It's been amazing, and yeah, if you wanna learn more about, um, you know, creating an awesome business in the spiritual world and in the wellness industry, yeah, connect with us both, and we'll catch up with you on the next episode of Connecting to Spirit. I'm host, Lisa Brandis. We'll see you next time. Bye for now.

Lawrence Ellyard 46:41

Ciao